Selecting the plumbing contractor:
If you think coming up with a basic plan, and searching images to match the plan, is more than enough for an estimate to start the process, you are wrong. That’s a dream, not reality.
A. Check with friends for a referral.
I’ve learned, “I’ve got a great plumber”, is not enough to hire the man to redo a bath.
Checking Yelp, Home Advisor, Angies List, and others is fine if you have nothing but time on your hands, to locate or to qualify someone and get estimates. Even though a “zip code entry” delivers multiple names, the response rate can be less than 25%, and they are not necessarily in your zip code area. According to some people, estimates were high, and when questioned, a reduction followed. That’s a warning flag to me. Was the estimate simply what traffic would bear? And was there, even more room? Kind of reminds me of some used car salesmen. Not a good choice—corners might be cut to “get even” for the price reduction no matter how friendly the contractor seams.
How about Home Depot, or Menards if you live in the Midwest. The contractors they allow to post their resumes usually have very good reports. But not all of them. Depends on the job and what they promise.
Conclusion: Referrals are generally best, if you do your homework, but try to get a referral based on a similar job. And remember, a fair price to someone with a lot of money may not be a fair price to someone else.
B. Question everything about the estimate.
Sure, the contractor was referred by a very good friend, but check the estimate, It could make a difference if there are changes.
Some questions to ask:
- Do you get a commission from the vendors you recommend
- If fixtures are included in the estimate, what is the brand, make, model, style ( plastic or metal), or cost
- If you are using a shower base, include the brand, model, color, cost and size of actual shower area Example: a 30-inch shower base includes a step 3.5 inches wide, reducing the actual shower area to 26.5", a tight squeeze for good-sized individuals
- What does "trim out shower" mean and what does it include
- What actions define "adjust framing", what is included and what is considered extra
- Where will the drain be moved and what portion of the estimate is involved. Example: is the drain moved an inch or two, left or right, or does the estimate include moving the drain from the left /right of the shower base to the center. Which is it? And what is the difference in cost?
- If shower doors are not included in the estimate, what cost can be expected, and who installs them.
- If unforseen plumbing will be done on a time and material basis, will there be a reduction in the estimate if some work is not necessary or different from described?
- What is the time frame, start to finish. Is the plumber working on other projects at the same time?
Here is a sample of one plumber"s estimate and what is lost by not defining the details.
.
JOB DECRIPTION: Remove tub, install shower with a bench, have
shower come out to the edge of the wall extension.
The tub area was 36" wide, from the back tile wall to the edge of the bench.
The side tile wall extended 2.5 inches from the back wall -- a width of 38.5
inches.
EXPECTATION : A shower within that 38.5 inch area
ACTUAL RESULT: A shower base 30 inches wide, with a shower area 26.5 in
--12 inches less than the tub area!!!! Yes, tile was 1/4 inches, durock was 1/2
inch, and even with mortar, that still leaves 11 inches, or 7 if the entire backwall is rebuilt with 4 inch studs
EXCUSES:
1. 30-inch shower base was the only one in stock. (Not true.)
2. You were in a hurry. (An extra day would not have made a difference.)
3. You saw me take it out of the box. (Yes and everyone has eyes equipped with long distance rulers.)
4. A lot of people have 30-inch showers. (Not if they weigh more than 140 lbs and stand over 6 feet tall and don't want to hit the glass doors as they shower.)
This owner was between a rock and a hard place. If you fire him he has your deposit and you do not have a finished shower. So she bit the bullet and moved on. She believed moving the drain would have affected his profits, so he used a base to match the 30-inch tub drain.
THE ESTIMATE did not cover the tile, grout and thin set (mortar). Prior to beginning the demo, the plumber recommends selecting and buying the tile so the job can move quckly. In this example, the owner bought the tile at a store based on the plumber's recommendation:
a." They will give you a special price because I deal with them."
b. "Don't go to Home Depot, etc, everytime one of my customers goes there most of the tiles are off sizes and broken or chipped.
Do not run to their recommendation: Shop, shop, shop. In this instance the owner did:
Discounted Cost at plumber's vendor: 2.85 per s.f
Same tile at Home Depot: 1.49 per s.f.
The difference: commission paid to plumber
shower come out to the edge of the wall extension.
The tub area was 36" wide, from the back tile wall to the edge of the bench.
The side tile wall extended 2.5 inches from the back wall -- a width of 38.5
inches.
EXPECTATION : A shower within that 38.5 inch area
ACTUAL RESULT: A shower base 30 inches wide, with a shower area 26.5 in
--12 inches less than the tub area!!!! Yes, tile was 1/4 inches, durock was 1/2
inch, and even with mortar, that still leaves 11 inches, or 7 if the entire backwall is rebuilt with 4 inch studs
EXCUSES:
1. 30-inch shower base was the only one in stock. (Not true.)
2. You were in a hurry. (An extra day would not have made a difference.)
3. You saw me take it out of the box. (Yes and everyone has eyes equipped with long distance rulers.)
4. A lot of people have 30-inch showers. (Not if they weigh more than 140 lbs and stand over 6 feet tall and don't want to hit the glass doors as they shower.)
This owner was between a rock and a hard place. If you fire him he has your deposit and you do not have a finished shower. So she bit the bullet and moved on. She believed moving the drain would have affected his profits, so he used a base to match the 30-inch tub drain.
THE ESTIMATE did not cover the tile, grout and thin set (mortar). Prior to beginning the demo, the plumber recommends selecting and buying the tile so the job can move quckly. In this example, the owner bought the tile at a store based on the plumber's recommendation:
a." They will give you a special price because I deal with them."
b. "Don't go to Home Depot, etc, everytime one of my customers goes there most of the tiles are off sizes and broken or chipped.
Do not run to their recommendation: Shop, shop, shop. In this instance the owner did:
Discounted Cost at plumber's vendor: 2.85 per s.f
Same tile at Home Depot: 1.49 per s.f.
The difference: commission paid to plumber
Comment by plumber during the remodel: "Good thing you got the tile early, It could have been out of stock or discontinued." Good thing to remember, the vendors all get tile from the same "pots".
This plumber refused to indicate the cost he allowed for the fixtures, posi temp valves, and shower base. Nor did he explain what kind of adjustment was made to the framing. In the end, the owner bought her own fixtures because she wanted brushed nickel instead of chrome.
The plumber gave her a $200 credit (shower head and extension she purchased) and said he did not charge for installing a niche or the 6-feet of tile base around the the bathroom. He gave no credit for 1 posi-temp valve (not needed), not it's installation He gave no credit for the bench, which he said he was unable to build. He gave no credit for installing a 30-inch shower base instead of a 32 or 34 inch base.
THE END RESULT: The plumber executed the job in a workmanlike manner, over an almost 3-week period. The owner paid him and vowed never again to remodel without doing her homework and making certain that the estimate itemized everything no matter how small, and no matter who gives the referral.
The owner did not buy a 72" high shower door from the plumber's vendor at a cost of $1900. Instead she bought a 78" inch high door on sale at Menards for $600, and had it installed for $260 by a vendor listed at the store-- who did a beautiful job.
Should the owner have paid less? Was the job satisfactory, great or just O.K. Were all of the estimates similar? Did she choose the least expensive? Did she get what she paid for? Should she ever ask her friend for another referral? Trust is on the table. No matter whom you trust, or the breadth of the remodeling job, you've got to do your homework. Details. Details. Details.
This plumber refused to indicate the cost he allowed for the fixtures, posi temp valves, and shower base. Nor did he explain what kind of adjustment was made to the framing. In the end, the owner bought her own fixtures because she wanted brushed nickel instead of chrome.
The plumber gave her a $200 credit (shower head and extension she purchased) and said he did not charge for installing a niche or the 6-feet of tile base around the the bathroom. He gave no credit for 1 posi-temp valve (not needed), not it's installation He gave no credit for the bench, which he said he was unable to build. He gave no credit for installing a 30-inch shower base instead of a 32 or 34 inch base.
THE END RESULT: The plumber executed the job in a workmanlike manner, over an almost 3-week period. The owner paid him and vowed never again to remodel without doing her homework and making certain that the estimate itemized everything no matter how small, and no matter who gives the referral.
The owner did not buy a 72" high shower door from the plumber's vendor at a cost of $1900. Instead she bought a 78" inch high door on sale at Menards for $600, and had it installed for $260 by a vendor listed at the store-- who did a beautiful job.Should the owner have paid less? Was the job satisfactory, great or just O.K. Were all of the estimates similar? Did she choose the least expensive? Did she get what she paid for? Should she ever ask her friend for another referral? Trust is on the table. No matter whom you trust, or the breadth of the remodeling job, you've got to do your homework. Details. Details. Details.
